7 Reasons Cantonese is Dying & Mandarin is King
Jul 2nd, '12, 15:28
7 Reasons Cantonese is Dying & Mandarin is King
http://larrysalibra.com/2010/02/25/7-re ... n-is-king/
Last fall, the New York Times published an article describing the rising importance of Mandarin in Chinatown. This seemed to offend travel writer Daisann McLane, an avid student of Cantonese. She insists that Cantonese is flourishing and cites her time with certain infamous Hong Kong politicians in New York’s Chinatown as evidence of such Cantonese. She’s wrong. Cantonese’s days are numbered.
I live in Canton (Guangzhou), which, unlike McLane’s Hong Kong, is the home of Cantonese’s prestige dialect where I have run a business for the past 3 years. I am fluent speaking, reading, listening and writing in Mandarin including obscure IT/tech vocabulary that the average Chinese does not know. I spend in excess of 90% of each day speaking only Mandarin or Cantonese and I spend zero time interacting with Guangzhou’s expat community. While learning Chinese, I spent significant time in class with the Chinese immigrants and their children in New York City and other Chinatown.
And now for 7 reasons why Cantonese is dying…
1. Everyone in Canton speaks Mandarin
It is impossible to only speak Cantonese in Guangzhou. Several Hong Kong and local Guangzhou friends of mine have tried this out only to find out rather quickly that they need to either break out their rusty Mandarin or get another cab.
A friend of mine who was born and raised in Guangzhou and attended Sun Yat-Sen University in Guangzhou, a native Cantonese, spent the good part of a decade abroad in graduate school in upstate New York only to return to be shocked how the language dynamics of his hometown had changed and his native Cantonese was no longer the only game in town.
2. Everyone in China speaks Mandarin
Learning Cantonese writes:
Still, despite more than 50 years of official support, education, and with all the levers (sic) of the central Chinese government pushing the primacy of Gwok Yu (national language), Mandarin is the first language of a whopping 40% of all Chinese. (It’s spoken by just 70% of Chinese, which is still an astonishing figure, given the primacy of putonghua.
Getting 70% of any population to do anything is impressive. Getting 70% of 1.3 billion people (in)famous for not following rules to do anything is nothing short of a miracle.
Who are the “just 70%” of Chinese that speak Mandarin?
the business, political and academic elites
all students
the entire workforce
anyone who has gone to school since the mid-20th century.
The 30% that don’t speak Mandarin are economically and politically irrelevant because they’re for the most part out of the workforce. They spend their time at home and their only interaction outside of their generation is constrained to their own children and grandkids, all of which are among the 70% that speak Mandarin. The 30% that don’t speak Mandarin will be dead in the next two decades.
3. Mandarin is the language of business and money
Mandarin is to China what English is to the rest of the world. Those who want to be successful and make money speak Mandarin. When a Cantonese person gets together with someone from anywhere else in China to do business, have fun or even get married, they speak Mandarin and not Cantonese.
When Sir Donald Tsang, Chief Executive of the Hong Kong SAR Government travels from Hong Kong to Beijing to talk policy, you can bet he’s speaking Mandarin and Hu Jintao and his underlings are not speaking Cantonese. Money and power is ultimately controlled by Beijing.
When a Cantonese and a non-Cantonese start dating during college, guess what they speak? You guessed it…
4. New York Chinatown Kids Speak English Not Cantonese
The children of those oft-cited Cantonese and Fujianese speaking immigrants in New York’s Chinatown speak English not Cantonese and Mandarin with everyone except their parents. Almost all are illiterate in Chinese. The few that try to learn written Chinese usually give up pretty quickly. Many of them were my first year Chinese classmates.
When these first generation children of Chinese immigrants get married and have kids, they speak English with their spouses, friends and coworkers. If they can manage to convince their children to learn Chinese, it will be Mandarin, not Cantonese.
This is no different than any other immigrant story. My great great grandparents spoke Italian. Did my grandparents? A few phrases. Do my parents? No. Do I? No.
5. Kids play in Mandarin
Spend time in the courtyards and elevators of Guangzhou’s developments and you’ll find that when local kids play with kids from other provinces, their games are in Mandarin. Their cartoons are also in Mandarin. In fact Guangzhou and Guangdong children’s channels are also in Mandarin.
6. Entertainment is in Mandarin
Of 80+ cable TV channels in Guangzhou, less than 10 are Cantonese, 3 or 4 are English and the rest are Mandarin. Even the majority of Guangzhou TV, Guangdong TV and Southern TV’s channels are Mandarin and not Cantonese. As someone who is studying Cantonese, I often go out of my way to track down the original Cantonese version of Hong Kong movies. It is much more difficult than you would think this being the birthplace of Cantonese. You have to go out of your way to find original Cantonese movies because most DVD vendors just carry Mandarin dubbed editions. A Mandarin edition can be sold nationwide. A Cantonese edition is worthless outside of Guangdong Province.
7. Mandarin is taking over Hong Kong
The average Hong Kong person’s English is not good. If you try to get along solely on English, it doesn’t work very well outside of expat-frequented areas. You are much better off simply speaking Mandarin. Cab drivers and cashiers in Hong Kong who speak and understand little to no English will understand exactly what you say in Mandarin.
Go into any Hong Kong government office, Inland Revenue, Immigration Department, the Companies Registry, you pick, and try to conduct your business in English. Then try again in Mandarin. Mandarin works every time, while English is very hit and miss.
More than 13.5 million mainland tourists visited Hong Kong, 100% of them speak Mandarin and they have cash to spend. Hong Kong’s population is only 1/2 of that. Hong Kong businesses are pretty squarely focused one the 1.3+ billion strong mainland market and that requires competency in Mandarin.
In fact, in 2007, Hong Kong’s Education Chief told schools to teach more in Mandarin and English and less in Cantonese. In the Hong Kong Government’s view, better English helps Hong Kong maintain its international competitiveness and better Mandarin helps Hong Kong to be more competitive in mainland China. Any chance Beijing’s Minister of Education will be telling schools to teach more Cantonese to help mainland competitiveness in Hong Kong and Chinatown? There’s better chance the Great Firewall be dismantled tomorrow than that happening.
In Defense of Cantonese
I love Cantonese. Its a beautiful and incredibly fun language. I decided to study it because I enjoy it. But I don’t delude myself into thinking its a good investment in the future beyond its entertainment and academic value. Enjoy it while it lasts.
http://larrysalibra.com/2010/02/25/7-re ... n-is-king/
Last fall, the New York Times published an article describing the rising importance of Mandarin in Chinatown. This seemed to offend travel writer Daisann McLane, an avid student of Cantonese. She insists that Cantonese is flourishing and cites her time with certain infamous Hong Kong politicians in New York’s Chinatown as evidence of such Cantonese. She’s wrong. Cantonese’s days are numbered.
I live in Canton (Guangzhou), which, unlike McLane’s Hong Kong, is the home of Cantonese’s prestige dialect where I have run a business for the past 3 years. I am fluent speaking, reading, listening and writing in Mandarin including obscure IT/tech vocabulary that the average Chinese does not know. I spend in excess of 90% of each day speaking only Mandarin or Cantonese and I spend zero time interacting with Guangzhou’s expat community. While learning Chinese, I spent significant time in class with the Chinese immigrants and their children in New York City and other Chinatown.
And now for 7 reasons why Cantonese is dying…
1. Everyone in Canton speaks Mandarin
It is impossible to only speak Cantonese in Guangzhou. Several Hong Kong and local Guangzhou friends of mine have tried this out only to find out rather quickly that they need to either break out their rusty Mandarin or get another cab.
A friend of mine who was born and raised in Guangzhou and attended Sun Yat-Sen University in Guangzhou, a native Cantonese, spent the good part of a decade abroad in graduate school in upstate New York only to return to be shocked how the language dynamics of his hometown had changed and his native Cantonese was no longer the only game in town.
2. Everyone in China speaks Mandarin
Learning Cantonese writes:
Still, despite more than 50 years of official support, education, and with all the levers (sic) of the central Chinese government pushing the primacy of Gwok Yu (national language), Mandarin is the first language of a whopping 40% of all Chinese. (It’s spoken by just 70% of Chinese, which is still an astonishing figure, given the primacy of putonghua.
Getting 70% of any population to do anything is impressive. Getting 70% of 1.3 billion people (in)famous for not following rules to do anything is nothing short of a miracle.
Who are the “just 70%” of Chinese that speak Mandarin?
the business, political and academic elites
all students
the entire workforce
anyone who has gone to school since the mid-20th century.
The 30% that don’t speak Mandarin are economically and politically irrelevant because they’re for the most part out of the workforce. They spend their time at home and their only interaction outside of their generation is constrained to their own children and grandkids, all of which are among the 70% that speak Mandarin. The 30% that don’t speak Mandarin will be dead in the next two decades.
3. Mandarin is the language of business and money
Mandarin is to China what English is to the rest of the world. Those who want to be successful and make money speak Mandarin. When a Cantonese person gets together with someone from anywhere else in China to do business, have fun or even get married, they speak Mandarin and not Cantonese.
When Sir Donald Tsang, Chief Executive of the Hong Kong SAR Government travels from Hong Kong to Beijing to talk policy, you can bet he’s speaking Mandarin and Hu Jintao and his underlings are not speaking Cantonese. Money and power is ultimately controlled by Beijing.
When a Cantonese and a non-Cantonese start dating during college, guess what they speak? You guessed it…
4. New York Chinatown Kids Speak English Not Cantonese
The children of those oft-cited Cantonese and Fujianese speaking immigrants in New York’s Chinatown speak English not Cantonese and Mandarin with everyone except their parents. Almost all are illiterate in Chinese. The few that try to learn written Chinese usually give up pretty quickly. Many of them were my first year Chinese classmates.
When these first generation children of Chinese immigrants get married and have kids, they speak English with their spouses, friends and coworkers. If they can manage to convince their children to learn Chinese, it will be Mandarin, not Cantonese.
This is no different than any other immigrant story. My great great grandparents spoke Italian. Did my grandparents? A few phrases. Do my parents? No. Do I? No.
5. Kids play in Mandarin
Spend time in the courtyards and elevators of Guangzhou’s developments and you’ll find that when local kids play with kids from other provinces, their games are in Mandarin. Their cartoons are also in Mandarin. In fact Guangzhou and Guangdong children’s channels are also in Mandarin.
6. Entertainment is in Mandarin
Of 80+ cable TV channels in Guangzhou, less than 10 are Cantonese, 3 or 4 are English and the rest are Mandarin. Even the majority of Guangzhou TV, Guangdong TV and Southern TV’s channels are Mandarin and not Cantonese. As someone who is studying Cantonese, I often go out of my way to track down the original Cantonese version of Hong Kong movies. It is much more difficult than you would think this being the birthplace of Cantonese. You have to go out of your way to find original Cantonese movies because most DVD vendors just carry Mandarin dubbed editions. A Mandarin edition can be sold nationwide. A Cantonese edition is worthless outside of Guangdong Province.
7. Mandarin is taking over Hong Kong
The average Hong Kong person’s English is not good. If you try to get along solely on English, it doesn’t work very well outside of expat-frequented areas. You are much better off simply speaking Mandarin. Cab drivers and cashiers in Hong Kong who speak and understand little to no English will understand exactly what you say in Mandarin.
Go into any Hong Kong government office, Inland Revenue, Immigration Department, the Companies Registry, you pick, and try to conduct your business in English. Then try again in Mandarin. Mandarin works every time, while English is very hit and miss.
More than 13.5 million mainland tourists visited Hong Kong, 100% of them speak Mandarin and they have cash to spend. Hong Kong’s population is only 1/2 of that. Hong Kong businesses are pretty squarely focused one the 1.3+ billion strong mainland market and that requires competency in Mandarin.
In fact, in 2007, Hong Kong’s Education Chief told schools to teach more in Mandarin and English and less in Cantonese. In the Hong Kong Government’s view, better English helps Hong Kong maintain its international competitiveness and better Mandarin helps Hong Kong to be more competitive in mainland China. Any chance Beijing’s Minister of Education will be telling schools to teach more Cantonese to help mainland competitiveness in Hong Kong and Chinatown? There’s better chance the Great Firewall be dismantled tomorrow than that happening.
In Defense of Cantonese
I love Cantonese. Its a beautiful and incredibly fun language. I decided to study it because I enjoy it. But I don’t delude myself into thinking its a good investment in the future beyond its entertainment and academic value. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Re: 7 Reasons Cantonese is Dying & Mandarin is King
Jul 2nd, '12, 15:29
Derek Chin • 4 months ago
Hey Larry, this is a great post. I have been recently writing a paper on the prevalence of Cantonese, both in China and around the world. As a Cantonese speaker myself, it is extremely depressing what I have been finding. (I speak Cantonese, But I am actually of Taishanese and Fukinese descent. I can speak neither of those dialects)
Let me make it clear that I do believe Cantonese is dying. Firstly, China is slowly extinguishing the use of Cantonese through broadcasts, which will greatly inhibit Cantonese in the long run. While it may not cause Cantonese to go extinct, that is not the point. Cantonese is dropping fast and hard, and the fact that it will still be around doesn't mean anything. It is still dying in the long run, especially compared to Mandarin.
Particularly true is point number 4. This relates closest to my experiences, since I am also a new york city resident. I went to stuyvesant high school (within walking distance of Chinatown), well known for having a huge amount of asian-americans as students. we may be proud to be cantonese, but aside from home, and the occasional necessary moments of chinese identity, we do not speak cantonese. Then again, mandarin speaking ABCs do not speak mandarin very often either.
There is also precedence for Cantonese dying out in Chinatown. After all, Taishanese started to die out with the influx of Hong Kong immigrant during the 60s and 70s. Today, very few know how to speak Taishanese aside from the elderly, even though more than 60 percent of the chinese-american populations have Taishanese ancestry (afterall, we have been here for over a century) So yes, a language barely in its diapers (in USA atleast) can, and probably will die out in the next few decades.
(On a side note, Cantonese remains dominant among chinese dialects in Canada, UK, Malaysia, overwhelmingly in Vietnam, and Australia, among others. while this may not have as much of an impact on the world overall, its still interesting to note)
That being said, I disagree with the statement Mandarin is taking over Hong Kong. While it is certainly becoming important, and has recently usurped English as the second most used language, I feel Hong Kong will still retain Cantonese as the top language in the foreseeable future for two reasons.
While many mainland tourists frequent Hong Kong forcing merchants to use mandarin, they do so only from a business sense. They prefer using Cantonese if they can help it. In the more touristy areas, more Cantonese is spoken than Mandarin. It is only if the shoppers only speak mandarin that shopkeepers will switch. Shenzhen, a city close to Hong Kong, are still dominantly Mandarin speakers. However, a significant number know Cantonese as well. When they go to Hong Kong to shop, which is very often due to their close proximity, it is the SHENZHEN RESIDENTS who switch to Cantonese, not the other way around. And this is not the older generation I am speaking of. This is college students, such as those of Shenzhen University.
Secondly, the culture of Hong Kong is dominantly Cantonese. Obviously, because of history, custom and traditions, the older generation speak Cantonese. However, that is unimportant, because it is the transition to the newest emerging generation that always matters. I argue that although schools have been encouraged to teach Mandarin more and more often, they are not pressured to do so as Guangzhou. This is because Hong Kong remains untouched by China in terms of legal, political and business relations. Basically, Hong Kong is one of China's best assets, and therefore, China WILL NOT MESS WITH HK IF HK DOES NOT WANT TO BE MESSED WITH.
Additionally, the Hong Kong film industry also remains mostly untouched. This is in part due to their huge success and worldwide fame (not Hollywood level but still). And majority of these films are still in Cantonese. What does this do? This actually provides the younger generation with more reason to retain their Cantonese. The fact that Cantonese is so prevalent within the POPULAR CULTURE of Hong Kong makes me believe that Cantonese will always remain important to the emerging generation as well as the old one, at least in the foreseeable future.
Still this mainly emphasizes its importance and survivability within Hong Kong. Overall, Cantonese is indeed dying. I only see Hong Kong as the last (but not unreasonable) hope for Cantonese to stay prevalent in the world.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
Hi Derek! Wow! Thanks for the long and detailed response. You're right...ABCs born to Mandarin speakers speak English just like those born to Cantonese speakers. I agree with you that Hong Kong's popular culture is one of the strongest hopes for Cantonese. You might be interested in the book Once a Hero: The Vanishing Hong Kong Cinema published by one of my company's clients. The author, Perry Lam, talks about how Hong Kong films are more and more being made with the (much larger) Mainland audience in mind. Thanks again for your well-reasoned response!
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Lily • 8 months ago
Cantonese is honestly so much more better than Mandarin. Poetry, literature, opera-wise, etc. That was how I grew up, with Cantonese classical literature and music. But sadly I have to admit, I'm switching Cantonese to Mandarin as well for business purposes. And I'm an American born. I got so upset when I was talking to my beijing camp advisor told me to switch from 蕃茄 to 西紅柿 for example. I don't care. A Hong Kong identity is what I will stick to for life.
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Rashmi Verma • 11 days ago
Very helpful. I've decided to learn Mandarin (as an investment, that is!)
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CristobalAleman • 15 days ago
Screw your in defense of Cantonese. Everything you said here it's deliberately hitting on a nerve, and completely bias and full of hypocrite bullshit.
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David Dunn • 22 days ago
Cantonese dying? Hardly. Cantonese is actually very strong. 30 years ago when you went to the Hakka, Chaozhou or Lei speaking (in Southern Guangdong) you couldn't get by well with Cantonese. Not now. Everywhere you go in Guangdong most people speak Cantonese. If they don't speak Cantonese they are probably not long term for Guangdong. Cantonese is so different from Mandarin it is likely to maintain it's own identity for a very long time. 100s of years. I have spent a lot of time in Shenzhen recently. I only speak Cantonese and get by just fine. Not everyone speaks Cantonese but a lot do. That wasn't as much the case 20 years ago. The government wishes Cantonese would go away but they are wrong. Cantonese is going to outlive the CCP.
I also speak Taiwanese. I went back to Taiwan after being away for 25 years. Some might also think Taiwanese will go away. What I see after 25 years is that the relative position of Mandarin and Taiwanese are about the same as 25 years. Taipei is more Mandarin but yet I only speak Taiwanese and do just fine with Taiwanese in Taipei. I work related to heavy industry. It would be hard to work in industry and not speak Taiwanese. Actually Taiwan has two very strong languages. What is dying is probably everything else. Certainly the aboriginal languages are in decline, but that is nothing new. The Taiwan government has tried to promote Hakka. Not sure how that is working out.
I see many parallels between the future of Taiwanese/Hokkien and Cantonese:
1. Both are profoundly different from Mandarin. (Taiwanese more so.)
2. Both languages have been officially discouraged by the government. Taiwanese prior to 1986. Cantonese up to today.
3. Both language are supported by their population. Taiwanese was and is the language of the Taiwan independence movement. Their have been very recent demonstration for more Cantonese media and less interference from the government in recent years.
4. Both Cantonese and Taiwanese are quite culturally different from other people in China.
There are many threatened languages in the world. Taiwanese/Hokkien and Cantonese are certainly not among those languages.
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Yuet Kiuh • a month ago
China is currently performing a linguistic genocide on the socalled
Southern Chinese dialects (Cantonese-Yue, Hakka, Min, Shanghai-Wu etc..) and other non-Chinese languages (Tibetan, Uyghur, etc…) by enforcing Mandarin as the only language in schools and by prohibiting or limiting the use of other languages. Will the Cantonese language die? This is not clear, because the current Chinese repressive language policy could lead to everlasting protests, not only by Tibetans and Uyghurs, but also by
the Cantonese people.
Approximately between 80 and 100 million people in China and worldwide
speak Cantonese (Guangzhou “dialect” or other Yue dialects). Cantonese
should not be considered as a dialect of Northern Chinese (Mandarin).
Cantonese is a real language which originated from a mixture between Han
Chinese and BaiYue (NanYue). Although the Cantonese people use the same Chinese characters, Cantonese is certainly not the same as Mandarin.
I truly believe that the Cantonese people in Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan,
Hong Kong, Macao and everywhere around the world will never accept that
the Cantonese language will die. We will always support our Cantonese
language and culture.
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Front of TVB* This is an effective way to keep Cantonese from dying out.
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Seriously, how hard is it to just spend 5 minutes singing a Cantonese nursery rhyme to your child each day and put him in from of TVB?
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Erm, wow. This makes me upset. I'm a fluent Cantonese and Mandarin speaker born in USA who can read and write. Seriously, if parents cared enough, their child can just be like me. My fiance is from Henan who speaks Mandarin but I am not going to let my dialect die out.
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go for aesthetic appeal • 2 months ago
i too think cantonese a dying dialect. my reasoning is to do with the lesser aesthetic appeal of the dialect: cantonese doesnt sound as pleasant as mandarin, due to slower evolution, which is resulted from warmer weather in the south and segregation from the rest of flatter china by mountains.
there is a discussion about "why cantonese sound unpopular to foreigh ears" in the following forum.
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co....
its not only unpopular to foreign ears. cantonese could easily be the least liked dialect among all the major regional chinese dialects. politically insensitive to say but truth doesnt need to be likable.
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
UMMM..... What an stupid blog this is. It seems to me your 7 reasons are full of exaggerations with not facts at all Cantonese in Guangzhou strongly protest against Mandarin taking over.
ALSO...THE ONLY REASON YOU THINK there so many people are speaking Mandarin in Canton is because 40% of Guangzhou population are mandarin speaking migrant workers from other parts of China. You're full of crap when you said it is taking over Hong Kong, people here speaks 100% Cantonese as does Macau. So I don't know how an foreigner like you can exaggerate like you know everything. Speaking Mandarin in Hong Kong is considered negative in HK society, same with Macau.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
You are correct, a large portion, if not the majority of people living in Guangzhou speak Mandarin. You have made my point for me! Many, if not most of these "migrant workers" migrate to Guangzhou and don't leave. They marry in Guangzhou and they have kids in Guangzhou. When a Guangzhou local marries a Mandarin speaking person...they speak Mandarin. Their kids grow up speaking Mandarin. When they go to college, those will speak Mandarin at college because that's the only language of instruction.
Your strong, emotional reaction and the reaction of people who are protesting demonstrates that there is a feeling that this culture is threatened...if there's no threat, why the emotional reaction? Why protest?
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
7 reason why Cantonese is NOT dying.
1. It’s official language in Hong Kong
2. It’s official language in Macau
3. 100,00 million people speak it
4. Mandarin imposed by invaders + only 500 years
5. Cantonese have 1200 years of history
6. Communist forced China to speak Mandarin
7. Cantonese will LIVE ON.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
This is a great list of 7 reasons Cantonese won't die! I like it! #1-3 are great reasons and help to further your argument. The remaining 4 are questionable. Re #6 this is isn't true. see: http://www.quora.com/Did-Canto... #7 is just restating your conclusion. I'm sure you can do better than this! 识讲广东话嘅人一定可以想起多四个，加油！
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
7 reason why Cantonese is NOT dying.
1. It's official language in Hong Kong
2. It's official language in Macau
3. 100,00 million people speak it
4. Mandarin was imposed by invaders with only 500 years
5. Cantonese have 1200 years of history
6. Communist forced China to speak Mandarin
7. Cantonese will on
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Larry • 4 months ago
@Lily We learned both 番茄 & 西红柿 when I studied Mandarin. They're just different names for the same thing. People will understand you no matter which one you use.
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Oscar • 4 months ago
HELL YEAH
ITS TAKIN OVER HONG KONG, WE ALL KNOW THAT
FUCK THAT SHIT,
THOSE COLONIZERS FROM CHINA ARE RAPING OUR LANGUAGE
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Edward • 4 months ago
Im so sorry this is the most retarted thing i have ever read. sounds like you are a guy from the bejing who wants to "Unify" the country by forving ur language on to other people. hong kong and other cantonese lauguages is going on strong many western people still consider hong kong and canton to be very busness like and not "stupid as you say " i acually dont thinj you know what you are talking about. may be we should learn both languages i mean its worked for thousands of years. maybe we cantonese people acually dont want to learn manderin and would be glad if people like you do not always say it is a dying language convincing people not to learn it. maybe you should go read a book or do something usefull in yourlife
i am a cantonese is america and i actually dont wanna learn mandirin if only the communist chinese party did not try to stop the language we so dearly try to hold
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Ken Cheong • 5 months ago
larry ,im a guang dong people (now living in malaysia),and what i know is malaysia ,vietnam,this two place many guang dong people talk cantonese, number of they talk chinese and cantonese daily is 1:3,indonesia also got some of them talk cantonies..
cantonese is anywhere of the asia country that got chinese (original guang dong people)people,cantonese will never be died and the world will never a language can call "king" , and i love cantonese very much!! many of my friend also the same!
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Larry • a year ago
@Bilingual I'm sorry I don't really understand what you're trying to say in your comment.
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Larry • a year ago
@Frank Sellers: If I hate Cantonese then I must be pretty crazy for paying to study it, and for helping to publish Cantonese theatrical works. And why are about 1/3 of my weibo posts written in Cantonese? Actually, I am huge lover of Cantonese. I just don't think the future is very bright for Cantonese. Ask people in Shanghai how Shanghaiese is working out. It's not even officially used anywhere. At least in Guangdong they use Cantonese in most PA announcements and on some TV channels.
I really hope you do study Cantonese. Drop me a message here or on Twitter (etc) and I'll be more than happy to share what books I've found worthwhile and which ones are not so good.
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Larry • a year ago
@Rich it really depends on which area of Guangzhou you're in. Certain areas have lots of "Guangzhou" people while others are mainly people from other cities and provinces.
People from other parts of China that work in the consumer services business tend to pick up Cantonese because they're exposed to it every day. People that work in offices that are local Cantonese run businesses tend to pick up Cantonese. People that work in foreign companies, national companies, etc tend to have more trouble because they're not exposed to Cantonese very frequently since many of those places require Mandarin to be spoke in the office.
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Bilingual • a year ago
Number one immigrants. Yes, all these immigrations is action destroying Cantonese rather than saving it. Need to learn Arabic language, Japanese language, etc. Hong Kong is following the American way of doom. What makes you think the immigrant would save Cantonese?
Number 2 forced English, We all know Chinese + English doesn't work. If it doesn't work in Canada with French and English, what makes you think Chinese will. Chinese have thousands of different symbols while English only have 26 letters. English should be learned after Cantonese. not at the same time. Same time only leads to failure.
Number 3, No one wants to teach. Sooner or later HK is going to follow Canadian way to doom. No one is going to teach. Too much time doing papers. More like no one knows how to teach. You want your children to have jobs don't ya?? They can do their job but not know how teach at all. Scramble the children make them run around. Canto poetry is already dying.
Put the blame on Mandarin that is what the English wants. Next thing you know we all have to learn Latin.
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Frank Sellers • a year ago
Yikes! Sounds like you really HATE Cantonese despite your piddling little praise at the end of your diatribe. You border on suggesting that Cantonese is a stupid language spoken only by stupid people, yet from what I understand it's much more complex and rich than Mandarin. After so many martial arts movies I can now tell the difference between the two and I like the sound of Cantonese better so I'm thinking about studying that. What do I care what Chinese tourists visiting Hong Kong speak? I'm American! They speak English everywhere!
Just a passing thought, if every language that was proclaimed dead had actually died no one today would be speaking many of the modern languages which have survived, including English! Shakespeare lamented 500 years ago that he feared his language's days were numbered because so few people spoke it. Languages do die out, but with millions of native Cantonese speakers I'm afraid this language you despise so much will be around till long after you're dead from old age, even if you're not that old. Sorry.
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Rich • a year ago
Regarding point 5 ("Kids play in Mandarin") -- I have a 21-year-old web friend who is studying medicine in Guangzhou. She plays basketball with friends, so I asked her (some time ago) what language they use on the court (some of them came to study in Guangzhou from north China etc). She told me they all use Cantonese. Also, her mother can only speak Cantonese. And when she and her friends tweet on QQ 说说, mostly it's in Cantonese.
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English is a failure language. • 2 years ago
China was suppose to protect both language. Without the 2 language it will become like America in Chinese style. Our ancestors didn't let Cantonese live for a reason (through out history almost every dynasty protect the two language and became successful, if China can do that what is the point of uniting China). The only reason Canada fails at French and English because their written language isn't similar unlike Cantonese and Mandarin. One language wouldn't make a difference in uniting China.
I see English a failing language because the hand writing system is gone now. Everything got simple and stupid(all symbols now).
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British • 2 years ago
English > Cantonese!
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VScalf • 2 years ago
This blog is so disturbing to me. While I agree with your statements, I am in denial that this "new wave" of evolution will continue. If Hong Kong leaves China (one day), maybe there will be a chance that the Cantonese language will be preserved, and prosper as a meaningful language to study.
Although I speak fluent Cantonese, English, and Spanish, I have not been able to learn Mandarin for business (maybe I am refusing to until I will be forced). As a first generation American, Mandarin and Cantonese tensions were counter- transfered to our lifestyle. I almost get annoyed when someone speaks to me in Mandarin (although I can understand them), and then I only respond in Cantonese. I am hoping we will have a revitalizing revolution of Cantonese speakers abroad, and we can reunite as the historic business language.
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Clint Cora, Speaker/Author • 2 years ago
I am a perfect example of 1st gen in North America. My parents are from Singapore/Hong Kong so my first language was Cantonese. Then throughout the years, I used less and less Cantonese. My primary language now is English and my Cantonese has fallen to about 70% fluency. Never did learn to write Chinese. Now that I'm a professional speaker (in English), I am trying to decide whether I should try to turn my keynotes into Cantonese or Mandarin next. It would be faster to pick up Cantonese again but Mandarin is completely foreign to me.
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Michelle • 2 years ago
http://online.wsj.com/article/...
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Michelle • 2 years ago
Hello. I stumbled upon this entry while searching for Cantonese food blogs through my Google reader and felt compelled to respond. After reading through your post and the post that you link to from McLane, I feel like you missed the point of her post.
While you make legitimate and well-founded points, you miss out on the cultural and emotional complexities that go along with language and its ties to people's histories and families. As a second generation Chinese-American who speaks Cantonese with my family, I found your post interesting to read... but rather insensitive. Though you use the example of your Italian great great grandparents, you don't take into account the immigration patterns, history, and current culture of what it means to be a minority (Asian-American) and integrate your culture vs. assimilating.
Also, many linguists would agree with McLane's point about linguistic diversity as having merit in and of itself, not only for what you call "entertainment and academic value" but because of what it means to people's culture and history.
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nigel • 2 years ago
hello! i am Nigel and i am in charge of Michael Michelini's Chinese blog. i was wondering whether you want to exchange links with me(or him, actually). this is the address: www.mailini.com .if you agree, please contact me via email. and it's not Mike asking, he just told me to do some seo for his blog so here i come.
by the way, you can speak Chinese, can't you? then please give me some advice on my translation. i am looking forward to you comment.
See you and good luck!
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righteousman • 2 years ago
Well, I guess China Govt. will unite its own country like USA and Canada when most of their native peoples (Indians) speak only English now.
However, I think Chinese people can have their own right to keep 2 languages/dialects at the same time like those living in Quebec in Canada. Cantonese will survive for another 40 years in HK. I worry about those Chinese kids who are living in Western countries. Strong evidence showing that they are like the native Indians there speaking English only. Their minds were totally brainwashed in schools! They will follow the steps of those Indians.
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Veng • 2 years ago
Larry,
You couldn't be more right about the rapid decline and eventual extermination of Cantonese Chinese. Your comments about NY Chinatowns are even more true. Back in the 1990's, Chinese school was offered in Cantonese ONLY. The times have changed and the last time i checked in 2009, the chinese schools in Chinatown NY are offering Mandarin classes over Cantonese in favor of 5:2.
Although Cantonese still has a significant base in Hong Kong, it will only be a matter of time before it simply is a minority dialect such as Hakka or Fukkien. Of course, I love Cantonese and feel a stronger bond with anybody who knows my mother tongue. It is sad to slowly see it dissipate into a pool of lost languages. But I'm 20 years old now, and as long as I can still find some Cantonese-speaking folks for small talk in my 60's or 70's(Cantonese will probably still be floating around, although at a smaller scale) I'll be happy. But that will be like 2060, so still got a long way.
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michael michelini • 2 years ago −
hey Larry,
couldn't agree more.....I was just in Hong Kong the past couple days for US passport issues.....and a wedding....but the Cantonese themselves are holding on as best they can.....
My cantonese is nothing mroe then hello, where are you, goodbye - and at the wedding, there were many there that ONLY spoke cantonese, I couldn't try my Mandarin or English with them.....
And also, even in Shenzhen they don't teach Cantonese in school, not sure how long its been that way, but friends about my age (20s) didn't learn cantonese in their shenzhen schools, instead it was from family interactions...
Maybe Cantonese will be around another 20 - 30 years, then it will be filed with "latin" haha
Hey Larry, this is a great post. I have been recently writing a paper on the prevalence of Cantonese, both in China and around the world. As a Cantonese speaker myself, it is extremely depressing what I have been finding. (I speak Cantonese, But I am actually of Taishanese and Fukinese descent. I can speak neither of those dialects)
Let me make it clear that I do believe Cantonese is dying. Firstly, China is slowly extinguishing the use of Cantonese through broadcasts, which will greatly inhibit Cantonese in the long run. While it may not cause Cantonese to go extinct, that is not the point. Cantonese is dropping fast and hard, and the fact that it will still be around doesn't mean anything. It is still dying in the long run, especially compared to Mandarin.
Particularly true is point number 4. This relates closest to my experiences, since I am also a new york city resident. I went to stuyvesant high school (within walking distance of Chinatown), well known for having a huge amount of asian-americans as students. we may be proud to be cantonese, but aside from home, and the occasional necessary moments of chinese identity, we do not speak cantonese. Then again, mandarin speaking ABCs do not speak mandarin very often either.
There is also precedence for Cantonese dying out in Chinatown. After all, Taishanese started to die out with the influx of Hong Kong immigrant during the 60s and 70s. Today, very few know how to speak Taishanese aside from the elderly, even though more than 60 percent of the chinese-american populations have Taishanese ancestry (afterall, we have been here for over a century) So yes, a language barely in its diapers (in USA atleast) can, and probably will die out in the next few decades.
(On a side note, Cantonese remains dominant among chinese dialects in Canada, UK, Malaysia, overwhelmingly in Vietnam, and Australia, among others. while this may not have as much of an impact on the world overall, its still interesting to note)
That being said, I disagree with the statement Mandarin is taking over Hong Kong. While it is certainly becoming important, and has recently usurped English as the second most used language, I feel Hong Kong will still retain Cantonese as the top language in the foreseeable future for two reasons.
While many mainland tourists frequent Hong Kong forcing merchants to use mandarin, they do so only from a business sense. They prefer using Cantonese if they can help it. In the more touristy areas, more Cantonese is spoken than Mandarin. It is only if the shoppers only speak mandarin that shopkeepers will switch. Shenzhen, a city close to Hong Kong, are still dominantly Mandarin speakers. However, a significant number know Cantonese as well. When they go to Hong Kong to shop, which is very often due to their close proximity, it is the SHENZHEN RESIDENTS who switch to Cantonese, not the other way around. And this is not the older generation I am speaking of. This is college students, such as those of Shenzhen University.
Secondly, the culture of Hong Kong is dominantly Cantonese. Obviously, because of history, custom and traditions, the older generation speak Cantonese. However, that is unimportant, because it is the transition to the newest emerging generation that always matters. I argue that although schools have been encouraged to teach Mandarin more and more often, they are not pressured to do so as Guangzhou. This is because Hong Kong remains untouched by China in terms of legal, political and business relations. Basically, Hong Kong is one of China's best assets, and therefore, China WILL NOT MESS WITH HK IF HK DOES NOT WANT TO BE MESSED WITH.
Additionally, the Hong Kong film industry also remains mostly untouched. This is in part due to their huge success and worldwide fame (not Hollywood level but still). And majority of these films are still in Cantonese. What does this do? This actually provides the younger generation with more reason to retain their Cantonese. The fact that Cantonese is so prevalent within the POPULAR CULTURE of Hong Kong makes me believe that Cantonese will always remain important to the emerging generation as well as the old one, at least in the foreseeable future.
Still this mainly emphasizes its importance and survivability within Hong Kong. Overall, Cantonese is indeed dying. I only see Hong Kong as the last (but not unreasonable) hope for Cantonese to stay prevalent in the world.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
Hi Derek! Wow! Thanks for the long and detailed response. You're right...ABCs born to Mandarin speakers speak English just like those born to Cantonese speakers. I agree with you that Hong Kong's popular culture is one of the strongest hopes for Cantonese. You might be interested in the book Once a Hero: The Vanishing Hong Kong Cinema published by one of my company's clients. The author, Perry Lam, talks about how Hong Kong films are more and more being made with the (much larger) Mainland audience in mind. Thanks again for your well-reasoned response!
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Lily • 8 months ago
Cantonese is honestly so much more better than Mandarin. Poetry, literature, opera-wise, etc. That was how I grew up, with Cantonese classical literature and music. But sadly I have to admit, I'm switching Cantonese to Mandarin as well for business purposes. And I'm an American born. I got so upset when I was talking to my beijing camp advisor told me to switch from 蕃茄 to 西紅柿 for example. I don't care. A Hong Kong identity is what I will stick to for life.
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Rashmi Verma • 11 days ago
Very helpful. I've decided to learn Mandarin (as an investment, that is!)
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CristobalAleman • 15 days ago
Screw your in defense of Cantonese. Everything you said here it's deliberately hitting on a nerve, and completely bias and full of hypocrite bullshit.
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David Dunn • 22 days ago
Cantonese dying? Hardly. Cantonese is actually very strong. 30 years ago when you went to the Hakka, Chaozhou or Lei speaking (in Southern Guangdong) you couldn't get by well with Cantonese. Not now. Everywhere you go in Guangdong most people speak Cantonese. If they don't speak Cantonese they are probably not long term for Guangdong. Cantonese is so different from Mandarin it is likely to maintain it's own identity for a very long time. 100s of years. I have spent a lot of time in Shenzhen recently. I only speak Cantonese and get by just fine. Not everyone speaks Cantonese but a lot do. That wasn't as much the case 20 years ago. The government wishes Cantonese would go away but they are wrong. Cantonese is going to outlive the CCP.
I also speak Taiwanese. I went back to Taiwan after being away for 25 years. Some might also think Taiwanese will go away. What I see after 25 years is that the relative position of Mandarin and Taiwanese are about the same as 25 years. Taipei is more Mandarin but yet I only speak Taiwanese and do just fine with Taiwanese in Taipei. I work related to heavy industry. It would be hard to work in industry and not speak Taiwanese. Actually Taiwan has two very strong languages. What is dying is probably everything else. Certainly the aboriginal languages are in decline, but that is nothing new. The Taiwan government has tried to promote Hakka. Not sure how that is working out.
I see many parallels between the future of Taiwanese/Hokkien and Cantonese:
1. Both are profoundly different from Mandarin. (Taiwanese more so.)
2. Both languages have been officially discouraged by the government. Taiwanese prior to 1986. Cantonese up to today.
3. Both language are supported by their population. Taiwanese was and is the language of the Taiwan independence movement. Their have been very recent demonstration for more Cantonese media and less interference from the government in recent years.
4. Both Cantonese and Taiwanese are quite culturally different from other people in China.
There are many threatened languages in the world. Taiwanese/Hokkien and Cantonese are certainly not among those languages.
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Yuet Kiuh • a month ago
China is currently performing a linguistic genocide on the socalled
Southern Chinese dialects (Cantonese-Yue, Hakka, Min, Shanghai-Wu etc..) and other non-Chinese languages (Tibetan, Uyghur, etc…) by enforcing Mandarin as the only language in schools and by prohibiting or limiting the use of other languages. Will the Cantonese language die? This is not clear, because the current Chinese repressive language policy could lead to everlasting protests, not only by Tibetans and Uyghurs, but also by
the Cantonese people.
Approximately between 80 and 100 million people in China and worldwide
speak Cantonese (Guangzhou “dialect” or other Yue dialects). Cantonese
should not be considered as a dialect of Northern Chinese (Mandarin).
Cantonese is a real language which originated from a mixture between Han
Chinese and BaiYue (NanYue). Although the Cantonese people use the same Chinese characters, Cantonese is certainly not the same as Mandarin.
I truly believe that the Cantonese people in Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan,
Hong Kong, Macao and everywhere around the world will never accept that
the Cantonese language will die. We will always support our Cantonese
language and culture.
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Front of TVB* This is an effective way to keep Cantonese from dying out.
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Seriously, how hard is it to just spend 5 minutes singing a Cantonese nursery rhyme to your child each day and put him in from of TVB?
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Bingtanghulu • 2 months ago
Erm, wow. This makes me upset. I'm a fluent Cantonese and Mandarin speaker born in USA who can read and write. Seriously, if parents cared enough, their child can just be like me. My fiance is from Henan who speaks Mandarin but I am not going to let my dialect die out.
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go for aesthetic appeal • 2 months ago
i too think cantonese a dying dialect. my reasoning is to do with the lesser aesthetic appeal of the dialect: cantonese doesnt sound as pleasant as mandarin, due to slower evolution, which is resulted from warmer weather in the south and segregation from the rest of flatter china by mountains.
there is a discussion about "why cantonese sound unpopular to foreigh ears" in the following forum.
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co....
its not only unpopular to foreign ears. cantonese could easily be the least liked dialect among all the major regional chinese dialects. politically insensitive to say but truth doesnt need to be likable.
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
UMMM..... What an stupid blog this is. It seems to me your 7 reasons are full of exaggerations with not facts at all Cantonese in Guangzhou strongly protest against Mandarin taking over.
ALSO...THE ONLY REASON YOU THINK there so many people are speaking Mandarin in Canton is because 40% of Guangzhou population are mandarin speaking migrant workers from other parts of China. You're full of crap when you said it is taking over Hong Kong, people here speaks 100% Cantonese as does Macau. So I don't know how an foreigner like you can exaggerate like you know everything. Speaking Mandarin in Hong Kong is considered negative in HK society, same with Macau.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
You are correct, a large portion, if not the majority of people living in Guangzhou speak Mandarin. You have made my point for me! Many, if not most of these "migrant workers" migrate to Guangzhou and don't leave. They marry in Guangzhou and they have kids in Guangzhou. When a Guangzhou local marries a Mandarin speaking person...they speak Mandarin. Their kids grow up speaking Mandarin. When they go to college, those will speak Mandarin at college because that's the only language of instruction.
Your strong, emotional reaction and the reaction of people who are protesting demonstrates that there is a feeling that this culture is threatened...if there's no threat, why the emotional reaction? Why protest?
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
7 reason why Cantonese is NOT dying.
1. It’s official language in Hong Kong
2. It’s official language in Macau
3. 100,00 million people speak it
4. Mandarin imposed by invaders + only 500 years
5. Cantonese have 1200 years of history
6. Communist forced China to speak Mandarin
7. Cantonese will LIVE ON.
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Larry • 4 months ago • parent
This is a great list of 7 reasons Cantonese won't die! I like it! #1-3 are great reasons and help to further your argument. The remaining 4 are questionable. Re #6 this is isn't true. see: http://www.quora.com/Did-Canto... #7 is just restating your conclusion. I'm sure you can do better than this! 识讲广东话嘅人一定可以想起多四个，加油！
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Mercury for it • 4 months ago
7 reason why Cantonese is NOT dying.
1. It's official language in Hong Kong
2. It's official language in Macau
3. 100,00 million people speak it
4. Mandarin was imposed by invaders with only 500 years
5. Cantonese have 1200 years of history
6. Communist forced China to speak Mandarin
7. Cantonese will on
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Larry • 4 months ago
@Lily We learned both 番茄 & 西红柿 when I studied Mandarin. They're just different names for the same thing. People will understand you no matter which one you use.
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Oscar • 4 months ago
HELL YEAH
ITS TAKIN OVER HONG KONG, WE ALL KNOW THAT
FUCK THAT SHIT,
THOSE COLONIZERS FROM CHINA ARE RAPING OUR LANGUAGE
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Edward • 4 months ago
Im so sorry this is the most retarted thing i have ever read. sounds like you are a guy from the bejing who wants to "Unify" the country by forving ur language on to other people. hong kong and other cantonese lauguages is going on strong many western people still consider hong kong and canton to be very busness like and not "stupid as you say " i acually dont thinj you know what you are talking about. may be we should learn both languages i mean its worked for thousands of years. maybe we cantonese people acually dont want to learn manderin and would be glad if people like you do not always say it is a dying language convincing people not to learn it. maybe you should go read a book or do something usefull in yourlife
i am a cantonese is america and i actually dont wanna learn mandirin if only the communist chinese party did not try to stop the language we so dearly try to hold
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Ken Cheong • 5 months ago
larry ,im a guang dong people (now living in malaysia),and what i know is malaysia ,vietnam,this two place many guang dong people talk cantonese, number of they talk chinese and cantonese daily is 1:3,indonesia also got some of them talk cantonies..
cantonese is anywhere of the asia country that got chinese (original guang dong people)people,cantonese will never be died and the world will never a language can call "king" , and i love cantonese very much!! many of my friend also the same!
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Larry • a year ago
@Bilingual I'm sorry I don't really understand what you're trying to say in your comment.
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Larry • a year ago
@Frank Sellers: If I hate Cantonese then I must be pretty crazy for paying to study it, and for helping to publish Cantonese theatrical works. And why are about 1/3 of my weibo posts written in Cantonese? Actually, I am huge lover of Cantonese. I just don't think the future is very bright for Cantonese. Ask people in Shanghai how Shanghaiese is working out. It's not even officially used anywhere. At least in Guangdong they use Cantonese in most PA announcements and on some TV channels.
I really hope you do study Cantonese. Drop me a message here or on Twitter (etc) and I'll be more than happy to share what books I've found worthwhile and which ones are not so good.
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Larry • a year ago
@Rich it really depends on which area of Guangzhou you're in. Certain areas have lots of "Guangzhou" people while others are mainly people from other cities and provinces.
People from other parts of China that work in the consumer services business tend to pick up Cantonese because they're exposed to it every day. People that work in offices that are local Cantonese run businesses tend to pick up Cantonese. People that work in foreign companies, national companies, etc tend to have more trouble because they're not exposed to Cantonese very frequently since many of those places require Mandarin to be spoke in the office.
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Bilingual • a year ago
Number one immigrants. Yes, all these immigrations is action destroying Cantonese rather than saving it. Need to learn Arabic language, Japanese language, etc. Hong Kong is following the American way of doom. What makes you think the immigrant would save Cantonese?
Number 2 forced English, We all know Chinese + English doesn't work. If it doesn't work in Canada with French and English, what makes you think Chinese will. Chinese have thousands of different symbols while English only have 26 letters. English should be learned after Cantonese. not at the same time. Same time only leads to failure.
Number 3, No one wants to teach. Sooner or later HK is going to follow Canadian way to doom. No one is going to teach. Too much time doing papers. More like no one knows how to teach. You want your children to have jobs don't ya?? They can do their job but not know how teach at all. Scramble the children make them run around. Canto poetry is already dying.
Put the blame on Mandarin that is what the English wants. Next thing you know we all have to learn Latin.
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Frank Sellers • a year ago
Yikes! Sounds like you really HATE Cantonese despite your piddling little praise at the end of your diatribe. You border on suggesting that Cantonese is a stupid language spoken only by stupid people, yet from what I understand it's much more complex and rich than Mandarin. After so many martial arts movies I can now tell the difference between the two and I like the sound of Cantonese better so I'm thinking about studying that. What do I care what Chinese tourists visiting Hong Kong speak? I'm American! They speak English everywhere!
Just a passing thought, if every language that was proclaimed dead had actually died no one today would be speaking many of the modern languages which have survived, including English! Shakespeare lamented 500 years ago that he feared his language's days were numbered because so few people spoke it. Languages do die out, but with millions of native Cantonese speakers I'm afraid this language you despise so much will be around till long after you're dead from old age, even if you're not that old. Sorry.
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Rich • a year ago
Regarding point 5 ("Kids play in Mandarin") -- I have a 21-year-old web friend who is studying medicine in Guangzhou. She plays basketball with friends, so I asked her (some time ago) what language they use on the court (some of them came to study in Guangzhou from north China etc). She told me they all use Cantonese. Also, her mother can only speak Cantonese. And when she and her friends tweet on QQ 说说, mostly it's in Cantonese.
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English is a failure language. • 2 years ago
China was suppose to protect both language. Without the 2 language it will become like America in Chinese style. Our ancestors didn't let Cantonese live for a reason (through out history almost every dynasty protect the two language and became successful, if China can do that what is the point of uniting China). The only reason Canada fails at French and English because their written language isn't similar unlike Cantonese and Mandarin. One language wouldn't make a difference in uniting China.
I see English a failing language because the hand writing system is gone now. Everything got simple and stupid(all symbols now).
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British • 2 years ago
English > Cantonese!
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VScalf • 2 years ago
This blog is so disturbing to me. While I agree with your statements, I am in denial that this "new wave" of evolution will continue. If Hong Kong leaves China (one day), maybe there will be a chance that the Cantonese language will be preserved, and prosper as a meaningful language to study.
Although I speak fluent Cantonese, English, and Spanish, I have not been able to learn Mandarin for business (maybe I am refusing to until I will be forced). As a first generation American, Mandarin and Cantonese tensions were counter- transfered to our lifestyle. I almost get annoyed when someone speaks to me in Mandarin (although I can understand them), and then I only respond in Cantonese. I am hoping we will have a revitalizing revolution of Cantonese speakers abroad, and we can reunite as the historic business language.
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Clint Cora, Speaker/Author • 2 years ago
I am a perfect example of 1st gen in North America. My parents are from Singapore/Hong Kong so my first language was Cantonese. Then throughout the years, I used less and less Cantonese. My primary language now is English and my Cantonese has fallen to about 70% fluency. Never did learn to write Chinese. Now that I'm a professional speaker (in English), I am trying to decide whether I should try to turn my keynotes into Cantonese or Mandarin next. It would be faster to pick up Cantonese again but Mandarin is completely foreign to me.
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Michelle • 2 years ago
http://online.wsj.com/article/...
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Michelle • 2 years ago
Hello. I stumbled upon this entry while searching for Cantonese food blogs through my Google reader and felt compelled to respond. After reading through your post and the post that you link to from McLane, I feel like you missed the point of her post.
While you make legitimate and well-founded points, you miss out on the cultural and emotional complexities that go along with language and its ties to people's histories and families. As a second generation Chinese-American who speaks Cantonese with my family, I found your post interesting to read... but rather insensitive. Though you use the example of your Italian great great grandparents, you don't take into account the immigration patterns, history, and current culture of what it means to be a minority (Asian-American) and integrate your culture vs. assimilating.
Also, many linguists would agree with McLane's point about linguistic diversity as having merit in and of itself, not only for what you call "entertainment and academic value" but because of what it means to people's culture and history.
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nigel • 2 years ago
hello! i am Nigel and i am in charge of Michael Michelini's Chinese blog. i was wondering whether you want to exchange links with me(or him, actually). this is the address: www.mailini.com .if you agree, please contact me via email. and it's not Mike asking, he just told me to do some seo for his blog so here i come.
by the way, you can speak Chinese, can't you? then please give me some advice on my translation. i am looking forward to you comment.
See you and good luck!
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righteousman • 2 years ago
Well, I guess China Govt. will unite its own country like USA and Canada when most of their native peoples (Indians) speak only English now.
However, I think Chinese people can have their own right to keep 2 languages/dialects at the same time like those living in Quebec in Canada. Cantonese will survive for another 40 years in HK. I worry about those Chinese kids who are living in Western countries. Strong evidence showing that they are like the native Indians there speaking English only. Their minds were totally brainwashed in schools! They will follow the steps of those Indians.
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Veng • 2 years ago
Larry,
You couldn't be more right about the rapid decline and eventual extermination of Cantonese Chinese. Your comments about NY Chinatowns are even more true. Back in the 1990's, Chinese school was offered in Cantonese ONLY. The times have changed and the last time i checked in 2009, the chinese schools in Chinatown NY are offering Mandarin classes over Cantonese in favor of 5:2.
Although Cantonese still has a significant base in Hong Kong, it will only be a matter of time before it simply is a minority dialect such as Hakka or Fukkien. Of course, I love Cantonese and feel a stronger bond with anybody who knows my mother tongue. It is sad to slowly see it dissipate into a pool of lost languages. But I'm 20 years old now, and as long as I can still find some Cantonese-speaking folks for small talk in my 60's or 70's(Cantonese will probably still be floating around, although at a smaller scale) I'll be happy. But that will be like 2060, so still got a long way.
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michael michelini • 2 years ago −
hey Larry,
couldn't agree more.....I was just in Hong Kong the past couple days for US passport issues.....and a wedding....but the Cantonese themselves are holding on as best they can.....
My cantonese is nothing mroe then hello, where are you, goodbye - and at the wedding, there were many there that ONLY spoke cantonese, I couldn't try my Mandarin or English with them.....
And also, even in Shenzhen they don't teach Cantonese in school, not sure how long its been that way, but friends about my age (20s) didn't learn cantonese in their shenzhen schools, instead it was from family interactions...
Maybe Cantonese will be around another 20 - 30 years, then it will be filed with "latin" haha